S2E2 - Past and Future OGs of FinTech - Matteo Rizzi
Few people in this industry have seen it all and called it right as often as Matteo Rizzi, a true fintech OG, a connector of dots and people, and someone I'm lucky to call a close friend. Matteo doesn't just observe the future. He shapes it. Buckle up because this conversation is bound to be as bold, insightful, and no nonsense as he is. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to Tales from the FinTech Crib.
Duena Blomstrom:I have a very special guest today. I know I say that for most of my guests, but this time I really mean it. Matteo and I have been, friends for quite some years now. And I think if you haven't met him before, you're going to fall in love with him today. So thank you for coming over, Matteo, and talking to us about fintech.
Matteo Rizzi:Hey. I know you're saying this to everybody, but, I'm really I'm really happy to, to take this invitation. It's a pleasure.
Duena Blomstrom:Genuinely, I'm excited about chatting. We have seen beginnings and ends of all kinds of things in, in in the industry, and, a bunch of the moments that we've learned together have been seminal for the for for kind of the evolution of technology and the financial industries. But when we met, you had been already on this journey for a while. So you wanna, take us through, like, a short where or short enough, if you can, because it's a complicated long road. Where has Mateo been in the journey with fintech?
Matteo Rizzi:You know, Duana, I wish I could say I worked this twenty five years for a bank and here I am, but, probably nothing is, less let's say the only to do is, true thing is a number. So I think it's been exactly twenty five years. And, this year, and I know that because I started working for swift in the year February. It's 2025. So it's been twenty five years.
Matteo Rizzi:There is no, you know, it's it's
Duena Blomstrom:difficult to,
Matteo Rizzi:to exactly. Difficult to deny. So it's not like it's a quarter of a century in financial services. I can say that. And, and it's also easy because half of them were at swift and half of them were outside.
Matteo Rizzi:So that's also, you know, there is that. And, and, you know, by now, many people know that the most interesting part, at Swift, and you interviewed Nattarius as well, which I very proudly, you know, hired into this mess, you know, back in back in the days. You know, I'm also one of the OGs of Inotribe, which is, whatever Natarios said it is, so I don't think it's worse to to to repeat it. But, let's say that, I had the Revolut beta on my phone, for example, coaching the Nick on how to not mess up, you know, in the in the, you know, drive challenge. And, actually, Lida, you know, was one of the coaches back then.
Matteo Rizzi:We still remember, you know, having a lot of fun. And if you Google TransferWise, and, you know, do you do you see me with, still with no hair, but with a suit and a tie, which is was, you know, pretty much for already the last time. For me, it basically, MCing the startup challenge where transfer wise one. That was, like, you know, considered in the beginning. And there were just two of them.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? So, that That
Duena Blomstrom:gives people a bit of context as well. I know I know they've probably hopefully listened to the Nektarios episode, and I know that people know in the industry exactly what it is. But for anyone who's new and there are loads of people that are very young in, in the area, Innotribe was practically, to my mind, the very first cradle of of fostering innovation in financial technology, and it was surprisingly organized by by a company that you wouldn't have thought of as the first innovator necessarily. And I don't know how much people are familiar with it, but if you aren't, go check what Swift does because they are practically the rails of financial technology. And and kind of that realization of how do we go from the rails to the front end seems to have been what, at least from the outside, what was pushing in on tribe.
Duena Blomstrom:And seminal for the industry, most of the big names have been through the hands of either Materonik, Thijos, or some of the other coaches, and this is the story that you're hearing now.
Matteo Rizzi:At the same time, do you wanna know if someone, listen to a podcast that has fintech on it and doesn't know what swift, is or does, then, you know, you know, she's very confused. You know?
Duena Blomstrom:But there's a lot of work to be done if that's where we are. Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:Exactly. Exactly. But, yeah. So that was, basically the the the the what occupied the last five years, of my swift time. And then, you know, the past, the other thirteen years is where, you know, life's got complicated a bit because I stopped wearing several hats.
Matteo Rizzi:Maybe for the first couple of years after I went out from from Swiss, the only the investor one because we we manage a hundred million dollar fund together with, Mircemi High School, who is not unfamiliar, to you either.
Duena Blomstrom:One of one of three or four Romanian names in the industry.
Matteo Rizzi:So he is
Duena Blomstrom:very proud
Matteo Rizzi:of that. Exactly. So, Mitche and I basically set up this hundred million dollar fund, starting investing, you know, in actually, our fund back then it was called SBT venture capital. Literally was the first declared official hundred million dollars fintech fund backed by a bank. And, we did a few, bad investments, but also a couple of good ones.
Matteo Rizzi:And probably eToro is, you know
Duena Blomstrom:The most famous. Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:The the exactly. The most famous one. And, and then a couple of years later, we sort of, made a deal with, our main, son- dad. He has sort of, gave back the baby, to the originator of the of the fund. And then sort of, the another, you know, way more active life started because one, a lot of banks are starting to, like, ask for help, because, you know, the experience of building a corporate venture capital was very precious.
Matteo Rizzi:So I have a couple of banks, you know, setting up their own, venture venture army. But then, very quickly, got involved with Africa, which is, you know, still today, I don't know if you can see that there is a map behind me which is, surprising in my reading room, but is actually my working document, because the continent is is so big that is difficult if you, you know, for me at least, if you don't have a visual. So on media network, I have me as a venture partner. Our first investment was surprisingly, Flutterwave, the seed of Flutterwave. So the like, Flatersville is the first, Africa fintech unicorn, and we are very proud to be the one who gave them literally the first together with, six or seven other sons, we gave them the first, dollars 2,000,000.
Matteo Rizzi:And, and then I started falling in love with the continent. So I always kept for the past ten years, an investor hat
Duena Blomstrom:Mhmm.
Matteo Rizzi:Focused on emerging markets and particularly in Africa. This as an institutional investor or a venture partner of LDC, You know, as a as an individual, I might have invested here and there, in, in, you know, in in a couple of other ventures, not only not only African, but, let's say that the investor hat has been a constant. But also, there is the entrepreneur one because in twenty six fifteen, we created the the fintech stage. It changed name three times in ten years, but originally it was Syntax Sage and you were there amongst one of the first speaker that I called because I decided that, on my 40 birthday, that's why I all I remember the dates exactly the March 31, 2015. We did the first of Syntax Sage in Milan.
Duena Blomstrom:Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:And, so that was the first of, I wanna say '20 or '25, events around the world. Back then, doing events was still the same. I I mean, it's still today, but but then you can make money with it. Today is a bit more complicated until Yeah. Unless you are, you know, money 2020 or Right.
Matteo Rizzi:Or a very, very big, exact Right. Very, very big brand. And, so Hintexaid was born, and my partner was Lathropampos, so the former CEO of Swift Yes. Which is also, like, a a pretty interesting,
Duena Blomstrom:fanatical. Probably I should probably see if he'll come talk to us a little bit.
Matteo Rizzi:Totally. Totally. It would be it would be it would be fun. And, so Lazar and I started in that stage. You know, he was the the guy still in a suit and a tie.
Matteo Rizzi:In the meantime, I morphed into the black t shirt and black only than the
Duena Blomstrom:Trendy model. Yes.
Matteo Rizzi:Type of guy. Exactly. Not trendy, but simple rather. Minimalist, I would I I prefer. And, which is very useful when you travel a lot because with a single trolley, you get from minus 10 to plus 34 in a single in a single track.
Matteo Rizzi:And, so that was the second sort of, act, the entrepreneurship act that, of course, evolved into doing consulting. And then, because we were investing in Africa, all of a sudden, we got a couple of grants from the Gates Foundation, from a media network to start developing ecosystem in in Africa. And then, like, very quickly, the third sort of, lag, was born, which is the impact, if you want to side of my work. So we in 2019, we started Time Pledge as a platform to coach, African entrepreneurs on soft skills for free. And, you know, the typical napkin, startup, in, you know, in in in a bar in in in Zanzibar, actually.
Matteo Rizzi:True story. We were all there, you know, bunch of great speakers, sipping cocktails in Zanzibar. And I say, wait a second. What are you doing here? Sipping sipping cocktails when we could actually go outside and and spend time with the entrepreneurs.
Matteo Rizzi:You know, we are here. Our trip is failed anyway by this confidence. So, we should actually pledge some time. So the timepledge.org was available. I registered back then, and we ended up, spending time with 2,500 entrepreneurs in 10 different countries, and that was, like, before COVID hit, then it became, of course, a virtual.
Matteo Rizzi:And today, and I wanna say this because it's, it's actually we are announcing the first pilot very soon. The time pledge has evolved into a platform to upskill African, 1% of best coders. So
Duena Blomstrom:Wow.
Matteo Rizzi:We are now we in partnership with universities, with there are 11 universities that signed up, an MOU, with us. We are actually taking the best data scientists, the best full stack developers, and the best cybersecurity experts, put them in a program of six months, so that they can reach the same level of, curriculum, of, you know, any European university. And then we we put them in touch with, either successful startups that, you know, did a a good round. So they are, of course in need for talent, or we have a bunch of, we call them time pledge talent partners, like, you know, banks, central banks, insurance groups, like tech technology partners, because what is missing today is, one, the right level of preparation, but also the visibility, you know, for if the on the talent side of the real, good, cool opportunities at the country. So, it is, of course, free for the students, and it's not a startup purposely, but I didn't wanna like it.
Matteo Rizzi:I didn't want an investor to tell me that I couldn't go to Sierra Leone and I should go to Nigeria instead. So, and, actually, Euroclear, kudos to them. They just sponsored the first batch. So we are doing it next month in Makerere, University, which is one of the largest in Africa. It's in Kampala, Uganda.
Matteo Rizzi:So we are starting the selection processes in a couple in a couple of weeks, and we are announcing them UNS announcing the cohort officially at the inclusive fintech forum, in, in Kedali.
Duena Blomstrom:Speak to all that and to to interrupt you in the middle and kind of to be in context. Happy to time pledge any kind of help in terms of of, human debt and the things they need to learn about organization. So if you if you need me to do a module on that, happy to do it.
Matteo Rizzi:You're you're always have been, but you're you're in my radar for this because there will be a bunch of seminars in parallel, to, to the course. And also, statistically speaking, we think that every batch of students, 10 to 15% will actually become entrepreneurs. They will not only go and work for companies. So, this is actually the the the the way I am planning to, to make a time pledge self sustainable is that, the idea is that we are going to seed fund some of these under find a way to seed fund some of these entrepreneurs and the ideas that are going to to build, especially because, I personally love frontiers market. So if you could see the map, you know, closer, you would see that there are 54 countries in Africa.
Matteo Rizzi:Of course, we are focusing on Sub Saharan Africa for obvious reasons. And, if you take countries like, you know, Botswana, Senegal, Mali, DRC, we're talking about, you know, countries between ten and one hundred million people with very basic, FinTech innovation, if any. Right? So, of course, if you, you know, the first one who who who who who, who set up a successful digital bank in DRC Perfect. Has, you know, they have 100,000,000 clients potentially.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? And, with 80% of the population, unbanked. So unbanked I mean, not outside of the financial system because, you know, today, if you have a mobile wallet you're in, but you don't have a bank account. Right? Right.
Matteo Rizzi:So the the moment that the regulators gets, you know more tired. Yeah. Exactly. You see the potential. Right?
Matteo Rizzi:Yeah. So, and and what happened, remember, I told you the that time that, syntax stage has changed three times. So from syntax stage didn't come FTS group. So FTS group, basically became much bigger than only an event company, because we started doing, you know, corporate innovation program, research, consulting, and etcetera. And then, Elevandi, so the organizers of the Singapore Fintech Festival and, basically a spin off of the, Monetary Authority of Singapore.
Matteo Rizzi:Right. Right. They decided that we would be a good partner to organize their African, events. So now, you know, the SDS group, merged or morphed into the evolution of Eleventy called GFDL
Duena Blomstrom:Mhmm.
Matteo Rizzi:Global Financial Technology Network. And, so I changed the the name of the company again into Time Pledge rtd. So now Time Pledge is The UK is a UK company Mhmm. That has the, you know, exclusively an impact, and a network effect, focus. And so that's more or less, well, maybe I would add that, six years later, that story of InnoTribe and how none of the InnoTribe founders, works for Swift anymore.
Matteo Rizzi:And we are all doing, you know, very different, but all super exciting jobs, ended up in a book that is called talent and rebels, where basically I try to figure out, you know, how can a corporate misfit survive, you know, in a in in a world where where understanding entrepreneurship and lateral singing thinking, sorry, is not that, that immediate. So I don't know if you meant that
Duena Blomstrom:I'm glad to answer this because it's we I I get to I get it quoted many times when when I meet, bank executives that talk about the emotional banking. They're telling me that the only two book that existed in the last fifteen years that talk about what fintech really was as an actual movement is mine and yours because everything else is just a theory about banking.
Matteo Rizzi:True. I couldn't speak about banking because that not, you know, really, really, really not my my background. But and and, you know, of course, we forgot breaking banks, which is, you know, the the European version of, of the breaking banks, and, you know, very proud of breaking banks Europe for five years, like, close to 300 shows. And this year, we changed it because, we it it it became a monthly show instead of a weekly show because I wanted to do a monthly break in banks Africa, by giving visibility, you know, to all these amazing, not only entrepreneurs, but ecosystems and and and stories, you know, of the
Duena Blomstrom:Mhmm.
Matteo Rizzi:Of the continent. So yeah. You know, it's, I need to find a better way or a more structured way to the question, you know, what do you do, today? If when I when I do it, when I'm in a in a, like, in a keynote or in a presentation, I usually show a pair of, angel wings. And, and I say that I like to give wings to entrepreneurs and that, like, my one liner, then, of course, it translates in a gazillion of different, of different activities as you can see, but probably giving ways to entrepreneurs, you know, with money
Duena Blomstrom:With the heart beat.
Matteo Rizzi:Knowledge, coaching, etcetera is yeah. This I think that in 2024, I was the official coach of six different startup programs from Mastercard to Echo Bank, to Visa. And, and and the and the common denominator is this, I and I just came back from, from Barbados, in for Sinta Caylands. And, when you see, you know, these guys pitching on stage, winning or not winning, but, like, making connection. Listen.
Matteo Rizzi:And, and you see that, you know, they listen a little bit because the presentation they came with wasn't exactly the one that they displayed, you know, and and people often sort of overlook how important is the storytelling, right, of your own, of your own idea, of your own startup. I think that's the probably my sweet spot if I had to pick one.
Duena Blomstrom:Right. I mean, where to start? What's what to grab from? Yeah. Your your journey is absolutely spectacular, and it's been through, a number of meandering moments.
Duena Blomstrom:But with that said, like you said, there's a very clear and obvious connecting lines through everything, and it's very evident to anyone who's ever worked with you that you you put a lot of heart and soul into into actually applying yourself. I mean, we've all seen mentors and coaches over the years who are just kind of ticking a box. And I think entrepreneur in my experience, entrepreneurs always kind of react to when when there's genuine heart in in the advice to have you know, I've been a textile and startup boot camp and whatever, mentor myself, Ignite now, mentor for, a while myself. But, yeah, it's it's it's, it's a good feeling at the same time that it kind of hopefully gives people shortcuts. I'm one of those, immensely straightforward people who just go, right.
Duena Blomstrom:I'll tell you something that no one else will tell you. And so it's not necessarily graded as the most pleasant of advice, but I'm sure that, ideally, people get something out of it. So now looking at, you know, number one, you're the only authority that I know on the continent. So there's stuff to ask about how they're moving and what's happening over there. But, secondly, I think, more importantly, you've seen most of the recent startups of kind of of most of us, I would say, old god of of of, fintech mafia.
Duena Blomstrom:So what's happening these days? What's new and hot and what's coming? It cannot still be blockchain. So what's the big thing?
Matteo Rizzi:So, and and I will try and I will try not to, not to talk about AI, because We'll
Duena Blomstrom:talk about AI separately if you like. That's kind of we're stuck on AI. I don't Yeah. The first thing.
Matteo Rizzi:So my my, my kind of thing today is, is the intersection between, sustainability, and finance if you want to. So for example, one of the things that, is particularly relevant for the continent, but not only is the number of, climate attacks, you know, funds that, have been popping up. And and, of course, by climate attack is, you know, it's the the the the the concept, or the scope is is much larger than than climate alone. Right? And it's not, you know, mainly B2B, of course.
Matteo Rizzi:And, but it goes way beyond, you know, the carbon fruit footprint, the data. And it goes into, for example, like reinventing, fundamentally, you know, agriculture or, mining, for example. So the the interesting enough, in Barbados last week, there is this mining company that, uses blockchain to did intermediate, or re intermediate, actually, the last mile of the, of the artisanal mining. Right? And, so there is there there was another company four years ago I almost invested in, originally from, Francophone, Africa.
Matteo Rizzi:Back then, I said, well, that's a great idea, but it's a little bit too early. And in the meantime, these guys out of Barbados, you know, they they are in a fintech conference, in Barbados talking about DRC, you know, the, a DRC mine that is, using their, their technology. And I say, wow. And, and then they say, why are we pitching here? Well, because in the 20 plus Caribbean countries, there are, 75% of them that have natural mining, as as a resource.
Matteo Rizzi:So, they said, oh my God, you know, how, you know, technology can help, financial inclusion. So, this is and so this is what on one hand is really overlooked by most of us because, you know, it's, it usually think that today makes rich people richer. Mhmm. You know, that's, or, in in the world that I touch every day, fintech is, is an opportunity to to level to level up, you know Right. The the the bottom billions.
Matteo Rizzi:Right. Right? And now, I don't really care if this is trendy or not, and, you know, to a certain extent, I'm also less interested to to to talk about it. But, what I'm interested in is, you know, how can we replicate the evolution of, of an inclusive ecosystem that starts with, you know, you know, payment price and credit and value added services and and insurance and and and micro financial services because not, you know, in many countries people can't afford an insurance plan or or the way we think about it. And how do we need to reinvent it in a way that, you can include the next billion customers, you know?
Matteo Rizzi:So Google Google has, I discovered it because, a a good friend used to let it. Google has a division called the next billion users. Okay? And, super interesting. Unfortunately, you know, that that next billion is more focused on India and Right.
Matteo Rizzi:Than than on Africa because there are one next billion user in India alone, you know, before Yeah. For Google probably or close to it. But it's interesting, you know, how, you know, Google that, we always talk about them as the forefront of, you know As you pick the
Duena Blomstrom:rest. Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:The direct culture, you know, for a bunch of things. And, I think that a lot more companies should have a next billion users, division. And then it's not the case today. And also, this is what I'm really passionate and what I see people not dedicating enough attention to.
Duena Blomstrom:Right. I like that. I like I really like that answer because and it ties into you wouldn't know this because it hasn't yet aired. But the first episode of this season, had Andre Soneya on it. So we've talked about financial inclusion, studied at the PhD level.
Duena Blomstrom:And, what we both kind of landed on is that, you know, it's it's it's it's still, and we will continue to be an area that's that's in need. And and it's not as sexy as other areas. It's not derivatives and and the acts, but it's it's there, and it's an actual need that needs sorting in terms of infrastructure everywhere. And and I like that you connected it to or rather that you started from the point of view of sustainability because I think almost everything is climate tech these days because unless we we figure out how to fix that part, it doesn't really matter what we do on the other bit. But in in terms of being sustainable, and and I'll maybe bring you back to the AI conversation, there's a lot that needs rethinking and changing for many reasons.
Duena Blomstrom:One, that we have a change of guards of generations that's that's due to happen in in our industries. Then and, you know, that I say this on almost every episode. These kids coming, in are a very different sort of human than than what we have worked with before, and they have, you know, a lot more self respect than boundaries and ideas about making the world a better place and so on. And we see them every day with the new entrepreneurs, and it's an amazing thing, but it it's also going to clash seriously with the world in which even we were the avant garde. Let's face it.
Duena Blomstrom:We're the old guard now. But there's still, you know, there's still a a serious amount of boards that are an even older generation than that. So, you know, that alone, that kind of generation of push and pull in the financial technology world, I think it's gonna come into play soon. And then when you combine that with the AI buzz of do do we actually need humans, or can we make all the software magically by telling Gen GPT what to do, then you have kind of a a a powder keg. And if you put that together with with the actual climate challenge that we're going through and the needs in fintech, I just think it's gonna be a very interesting space over the next couple of years.
Duena Blomstrom:So how do you feel about this AI thing? And and, a more tricky question, where is the delta between the the the chatbots that we were seeing every bank desperately trying to color in green and, what they have today?
Matteo Rizzi:So, I think that what is what is missing today is, and, you know, let's talk about something that happened in the past forty eight hours, right? So, you know, when you you and we don't even know if, you know, that trainees platform, that was built with the structure of a cost of a ChargeGPT is, you know, I don't know if you notice it, but, in in the in the Facebook wall, in the past forty eight hours, that is, hey, you know, look, you know, I I asked ChargeGPT about Materici, and then I asked about, Deepsea, you know, the the the is that right? Deepsea?
Duena Blomstrom:I think Deepsea. Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:Yeah. And and I said, oh, look. You know, or Deepsea don't know who is Mao because it's, like, too old and stuff like that. And so they are trying to basically, they're they're they're trying to figure out whether or not, is a massive hope or or if there is or if they really did something which is potentially, you know, at the same level of, a $100,000,000,000 project or a trillion dollar project, and and they could make it with 6,000,000. Right?
Matteo Rizzi:So the point is the point is I think that we are, look there is not enough people who don't give a fuck in this world. In the in in the sense in the sense that, and and I and I and I can learn I learned this, you know, at, my young age, much closer to retirement than to the fullness of your professional life. When when you actually can be bold because the the the the objective of what you want to do, your mission is more important than, you know, paying paying the bills and your own personal return, you end up actually being way more assertive and powerful. Right. Right?
Matteo Rizzi:So because it requires a lot of boldness to come Sure. Into the in the world and say, listen. I build this. It cost 6,000,000, and I built it with 20 kick ass Chinese students when the other guy on the other side of the ocean claims to have done the same thing, but, 1,000 times, I did 1,000 times, more resources, than the, than the other one. You know, it's, it's actually when you think about it, it could have said, I did it for half the price and still be super interesting for an investor.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? But no, he said, I I've done it, a thousand times here. Right. So, and and, you know, the fact that it's it's amazing how something that you have never heard become the most popular thing in four in forty eight hours.
Duena Blomstrom:Yeah. Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? So and I think that the the level of disruption this world needs is actually closer to this
Duena Blomstrom:Mhmm.
Matteo Rizzi:Than, anything that is inertia based doesn't matter how fast that inertia is. You see? And and he's and he's getting very he's getting very personal because, you know, something that doesn't comply with any speed of inertia, but it goes, you know, like, ending them with a more disruptive mode has to be done by people who are, selfless. Right. You know?
Matteo Rizzi:Because, because people don't wanna risk it. Right. You know? Why why should you risk it? Why should I maybe they won't call me to to, you know, to speak anymore or maybe they will I you know, they will not invite me there or they won't call me in that, you know, for that net position or they wouldn't think of me for the board.
Matteo Rizzi:At the same time, you know, the it true story. One, I I've got prompted to actually sit on a board of a very, listed multibillion dollar financial services, company. And, and I did that interview with the the headhunter that was recruiting that board member. Right? And the prompt was that, oh, you know, they are looking for someone, you know, with a very disruptive vision and, like, not afraid to, like, us to to speak his, you know, the the, you know, from his true self.
Matteo Rizzi:Someone someone who has experience with, you know, innovation in financial services who has seen a lot of different I mean, it was the guy was like, my name was breaking on that CV all over the places. And they ended up, giving that net position to a twenty five years experienced banker. Right? Now, and so clearly that person wasn't compatible with the CV they put out there. Right?
Matteo Rizzi:Yet yet at the certain point in time in the recruitment process, basically fear to co
Duena Blomstrom:Yeah.
Matteo Rizzi:Fear to cover. So and and and we need more people that are not controlled by fear. Right. Yeah. And they are driven by the true willingness to change the world.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? Because everyone says is a little you know, this. And, again, talking about, you know, slide that we were showing up almost twenty years ago, disruptive versus the incremental innovation. Right? So, and and that's okay.
Matteo Rizzi:That's why I talk about rebels and and and misfits, because I'm sorry, but, these are the type of, personalities
Duena Blomstrom:You're gonna need for any disruption. Otherwise, you can
Matteo Rizzi:always Exactly.
Duena Blomstrom:That they're for income
Matteo Rizzi:as well,
Duena Blomstrom:of course.
Matteo Rizzi:And I'm afraid and I'm afraid that there are not enough.
Duena Blomstrom:Not enough. Yeah. I know what you mean. And and I like how you brought it back. And it's not not necessarily the most hopeful of messages, but, but it's the truth, which is, you know, to to to keep to the speaking plain English vein, having enough balls to create big change is difficult.
Duena Blomstrom:Like, you very well pointed out in particular, you know, the risk goes up the order you get, actually, which is one of the reasons why this new generation has a has a clearer runway than we do. But, also, maybe this is the I like to think of the hopeful idea that maybe this is a time where, you know, humanity is changing towards having to be forced to look within and having to to do better on their what used to be soft skills because that's our only USP remaining looking forward. So I think that big piece of truth has to start landing. And when it does, I feel like it's going to propel, authenticity. It's going to make people be a lot more themselves and honest and and fearless because being who you are and the the the the the the brand being that of truthfulness and and of of fidelity to to what you feel will become a lot more important.
Duena Blomstrom:So I'm I'm really optimistic about eventually things changing towards what matters, you know, the courage, the creativity, the things that AI is not gonna give anyone. So, so I'm I'm I'm optimistic in the long run. In the short run, it's gonna be tight and, and scary for everybody, I think. But I really know kind of how much we have to, to we have covered, but also, you know, we're left with a lot, and I don't think, we would have we would do need to do another one. But even in that one, we probably wouldn't get very far talking through all the stories that we've had together.
Duena Blomstrom:But let me let me ask you one last thing, and, you know, it doesn't have to be the the the the last thing because, again, we have to chat some more. But for this episode, what do you think is how do I formulate this elegantly? What do you think is absolutely necessary if you had to choose one thing that, banking needs or rather the industry needs? And and that kind of applies to technology in general as well. What would be the one thing you'd be hopeful for in terms of either, on the inside or the outside of the process?
Duena Blomstrom:So I know we've just touched on it, but what would you say is critical over the next ten years?
Matteo Rizzi:There are different ways in which, I could, answer the question. And, if I was to pick one, I would probably say a much smarter, inclusive, and open way to manage talents. And, which is not, of course, something which is peculiar to banks, but is actually true for like, the majority of the, of the industries. And the reason why I'm saying this, is, not just because, like, financial services players should hire different profiles of people that are not hiring today, but equally in, you know, of equally important, make sure how they nurture, develop, change the current workforce.
Duena Blomstrom:The fire they have.
Matteo Rizzi:And and, you know, and and again, you know, let's talk about, you know, if you are talking with, financial services, whether there are, you know, startups, the grown ups, banks, insurances, central banks. And, you know, what is really sad, Buena, is that, when you are really, really, you know, called as a piece of ice, and you look at it without any, like, prejudgment, there are three percent of people that make, really, really things move forward in any given institution. What I mean what I mean is that, you know, the, there are very little visionaries and most of, most people are executors, right? So the amount of people you bring, from the executors into the critical thinkers sort of, feel set, the faster, any company grows, right? And, and this in financial services, especially where under the same umbrella, you have, you know, payments, credits, value added services, you know, asset management, digital assets now.
Matteo Rizzi:So you can't expect, the same 2%, of your workforce. And to be the engine, that brings every single business forward. So your capacity of, and, you know, I'm taking digital assets is now a good example. Right? So, it is true that, especially, with the type of, political power in place, right now that, it it must be it will be a pivotal a pivotal moment for digital assets regardless.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? So and, and and not just because Bitcoin is over a hundred k, but also because, it really seems, you know, to get the attention of the more traditional financial services in gen. Right? Now the largest Italian bank announced that they bought 10 Bitcoin, two weeks ago. They made the headlines every single day since then, to have him bought 10 Bitcoins as an institution, Right?
Matteo Rizzi:Wow. So, now I happen to know well, you know, the team, or the different teams, actually, that are, in different financial institutions look at, you know, the assets. And, they are doing out of, their own, let's say, inclination, intellectual inclination. Right? But most of them, there are self doubts, right?
Matteo Rizzi:Because, there is no critical, yet, you know, thinking the strategic approach is more, I don't wanna say it's improvise because it's not. Mhmm. But you see the difference between, something that can become
Duena Blomstrom:A lot more empirical. Yeah. Of course.
Matteo Rizzi:Exact can become a $3,000,000,000,000 opportunity. Is a $3,000,000,000,000 opportunity than, you know, just because you it we happen to have someone, that is, passionate about it. Yeah. You know, and she's leading now a project inside the, you know, that particular institution that will eventually lead into some sort of digital asset engagement. You see, you, you see, so when you say that one thing is, is a strong, is, is a strong advice, to, to spend energy and, and focus and, and quality time in, thinking, how am I adapting?
Matteo Rizzi:You know, how do I adapt the ex, you know, my existing workforce? You know, not only because very often what, what does it happen is that, you, you, you get people from outside. Right? You pay them. It's like a fintech all over again.
Matteo Rizzi:Sure. Let's get the former entrepreneur put him or put her in, you know, as the head of fintech, of my institution, and then it becomes a beautiful lace lipstick, you know, on a I don't even know if a beautiful pig. Right? Because the the the, you know, that person alone, you know, might bring two or three, you know, hackers from outside. But but then it just become, you know, a battle too big to fight.
Matteo Rizzi:Right? If you don't adapt your insight or first. So that would be my thing I would mention.
Duena Blomstrom:I love that. I love that. And that's kind of absolutely matching with my experience, trying to change cultures of, of various organizations, I strongly believe that that's the way. Doing more human work internally is emergency one. If if everyone stopped, I kept saying this.
Duena Blomstrom:Stop doing any of the operational and technical work they have for the the next few months and did nothing but try to catch up on collaboration and communication and working together and figuring out how they feel and and knowing each other, then that would be time well spent. But it's not going to happen. But, ideally, in a in a future world, we will have at least some time carved out to to doing that because if we don't do conscious human work, we're not going to be holding on to this idea that we can have people effective, in in any of these industries. And you're very, very right. This is a common problem for for everywhere.
Duena Blomstrom:It's not a banking only problem, but but this is where we should all focus from here on. Who do we have in the team? What does that team look like? And how courageous and willing are they to to change the world? I really love that perspective.
Duena Blomstrom:Thank you, Martha. And thank you in general for for spending time with us today, and hopefully we'll have you back so you tell us more. But, yes, it's been amazing. Thank you.
Matteo Rizzi:Thank you, Odwena. Always a pleasure. And, I am sure that this conversation will continue online and
Duena Blomstrom:offline.