S1E6 - The Future of Banking is (still) in Personalisation - Alex Jimez

Duena Blomstrom (00:00.931)
Hello everyone and welcome back to Tales from the #FinTech Crypt. I have Alex Jimenez with us today and I am looking forward to this conversation. We've been planning it for quite a while. I think anyone who has read Alex before or heard Alex speak before knows that he is not afraid to tell it like it is. So I'm hopeful that we're going to get to the bottom of what #FinTech is. Welcome to the show Alex. Thank you for accepting my invite.

Alex Jimenez (00:32.012)
Of course, thanks for having me. We've known each other for a long, time, so it's always good to chat with you.

Duena Blomstrom (00:32.078)
Absolutely.

Duena Blomstrom (00:37.743)
We have finally caught up because it's been a minute, but we have known each other for, I think, probably 15 years now. As long as there has been fintech, right? That is very true. I had forgotten that. But you don't look a day older. None of us do. We just look much wiser. I was told by Alessandro Hatami the other day, so I'm sure that's true.

Alex Jimenez (00:47.251)
Yes.

Yeah, I had hair when you first met me, so yeah.

Duena Blomstrom (01:06.104)
So going back to those days of hair and hope, what would you say was the absolute first time you felt like you were in the industry? And what did the industry mean to you at the time?

Alex Jimenez (01:06.146)
Sure, we'll take that.

Alex Jimenez (01:24.802)
Well, I've been in the banking industry for 30 something years, but the world of fintech really, I think the first time I felt I was in it was 2011 at a Finnovate in New York City. And that was in the days where Finnovate was a totally new thing. yeah, and it was nothing but demos.

Duena Blomstrom (01:45.663)
Brand new.

Alex Jimenez (01:52.71)
And I was super excited coming out of there. My boss, who was the CTO of the bank there, worked at, and I were there, and both of us came out with all kinds of ideas, which some of them have pent up, and some of them died in the vine, and some of them are long forgotten.

Duena Blomstrom (02:04.535)
You

Duena Blomstrom (02:10.552)
think that's a really good point and I think maybe we should give people a taste of that because we have talked about, have referenced Finnovate on this show multiple times before. think it's seminal for the industry. I did write about it in my book, Emotional Banking, because I think that's where a lot of the things we see today have really started. But that's key that what Alex was saying earlier, which is

Finovate was a series of demos. You had a thing, you had made a thing, you were coming to show how that thing was going to change the financial industry, which is obviously massively different than anything that has a deck and the PowerPoint in it. So those days were that kind of what was powering the excitement, wasn't it, that you could see a thing happening.

Alex Jimenez (03:00.226)
Yes, yeah, and of course, you know, there were things that were happening at the time. Mobile particularly was a new form. A lot of us were playing with the first few versions of either a Google phone or an Apple phone, and a few people were also playing with a Windows phone, if you remember.

Duena Blomstrom (03:21.837)
There were even palm apps for banking. remember these two banks trying that.

Alex Jimenez (03:31.586)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. you know, so it was all exciting. It was also early days of crypto. So everyone was thinking crypto was going to change banking and investments. you know, 10 years from now, everything will be all about Bitcoin and, you know, no one will be using computers. Everyone will be on mobile devices, blah, blah, blah. Some of those some of those things happen, but

I crypto is like this, right? It's going up and down, up and down. And the effect has not been what we thought of back in 2011.

Duena Blomstrom (04:11.222)
But there was so much that we had to change at that point and a lot of those conversations were going quite deep in the actual concept of what money was, which let's face it, don't do these days much anymore. But kind of if you remember what David Birch was on and on about in terms of money and digital identity back in the day, those were genuine moments of...

This is a deep consideration. So of course, on the bed of that, idea that crypto was going to completely revolutionize was everywhere. But I think we're jumping ahead. It's taken us, I don't even remember crypto until like halfway into our journey. I think the very, the most advanced things in Finovate at first were obviously ways to show what you are doing with your money. They were hundreds of copies of Mint people were attempting to produce here and there.

Alex Jimenez (04:55.198)
Yeah.

Duena Blomstrom (05:07.852)
The colours and the personalisation, do remember the big two or three years of personalisation craze where everyone and their dog was going to give you this one cray card that was going to have your dog's face on it and that was going to revolutionise financial services. Lovely, lovely beginnings of time.

Alex Jimenez (05:08.982)
Yes.

Alex Jimenez (05:18.146)
Yes.

Alex Jimenez (05:30.722)
Yeah, that reminds me of the one card to rule them all, right? Everything was going to be on a single card. I know that people are still trying to do that, but that never panned out. I don't know how many of those companies came and went with the idea of load up all your cards into this card. you know, now we just load them up on the phone. You don't need a card to do that. Or for that matter, even.

you don't even need cards anymore. some of those things kind of changed. I remember a lot of mobile payment solutions and because, know, even with the iPhone, Apple wouldn't turn on their NFC chip, which just happened, right? They just turned it on for third party vendors. But because of that,

Duena Blomstrom (06:19.349)
you

Alex Jimenez (06:29.452)
there were all kinds of ideas. remember one that we worked with a vendor and we were about weeks to go live with it. And then the company went under, it was the sticker you put in the back of your phone and then you, and that had the chip and you could pay for that. then to be able to do that, you had to sign up all the merchants and that was the big challenge.

I think we had signed up like three or four merchants who were going to test it. you know, we signed the contract. We actually never paid anything because the vendor went under before we even got a chance to pay.

Duena Blomstrom (07:09.163)
There were probably tens of thousands of companies that were having super out of the box and very cute and demure solutions that were hardware based more than they were software based. later on as a StartupBootCamp mentor and Techstars mentor, I have seen even more of these and it really always

Alex Jimenez (07:28.961)
Guess.

Duena Blomstrom (07:36.693)
bedazzles me how courageous people would be to attempt to make an add-on hardware solution to our existing digital issues, but that is where we were. And that was happening on the outside, whereas on the inside of banks, the current wasn't quite there. So these were all workarounds for those of us listening to us that don't quite understand why all of that would be happening, it's because it was the wild, wild west of innovation and everyone was attempting to go around what they were seeing as these

mammoth not moving fast enough but you were you were banker when it all hit then?

Alex Jimenez (08:14.678)
Yeah, yeah. And then of course, then there was the wave of innovation within banks. So I was the head of innovation in a bank. And, you know, there were many people like me around the industry trying to bring innovation in organizations that wanted to spend on innovation, but it just didn't fit the model. So, you know, what a story that I'd like to tell is the

My CEO at some point had asked me to present how do we change the culture inside the bank to be more innovative and so on. And I made the mistake of using the break things and learn fast. And he was very upset with me. He called me to his office and he said, we do not fail fast at this bank. We just don't. I'm not a person that can

Duena Blomstrom (09:05.843)
is it

Alex Jimenez (09:13.568)
very quickly respond to a comment like that. was like, all right, okay, I get it. And then a couple of days later, I was like, wait a minute, what do mean we don't fail fast? Of course we fail fast. And we fail all the time because we actually budget for charge-ups, we actually budget for losses. So we are there planning to fail for some things. Why can't we put that into the realm of innovation?

Duena Blomstrom (09:38.312)
Hmm

Alex Jimenez (09:43.522)
But that really just kind of crystallizes the challenge, right? If you wanted to be an innovator in an organization that had a very old mindset, you couldn't just have, you know, just delegate it to a guy or a lady and say, "Okay go do innovation. "Call us when you have an innovation." It's got to be kind of the part of the organization. It is now that I'm actually seeing more and people who are innovative within the construct of the bank.

and actually have day jobs, right? You know, the head of treasure management, right? Who's bringing innovations to treasure management, the head of mortgage, who's bringing innovations to mortgage. So it's taken over a decade for that to happen. but it really has, the reason for that is really being more generational. So as the boomers start leaving the industry.

Duena Blomstrom (10:18.355)
Something like that. Right.

Duena Blomstrom (10:36.956)
Hmm.

Alex Jimenez (10:43.426)
and the millennials and Gen Xers start moving into positions of power. That's when innovation seemed to be happening. Not to say that some boomers were not innovating, but that seems to be the case. But that's not what we thought back in 2011.

Duena Blomstrom (10:59.721)
I mean, I don't even know where to start. have a hundred things to say about and to ask you about that because from the outside, if you wish, the two different sides of this, you were on the inside of the bank and we would be on the outside of the bank trying to find these inside advocates that could drive change. I have developed such incredible empathy for people who have attempted to move innovation, some of which

severely burnt out than in other industries today, many of which. And then the ones that have those big, big changes are many of them very unsung heroes, unfortunately, whereas I think they should have been on Mount Rushmore with statues of their immense efforts. But I also think that, and I say this a lot to anyone listening, the learnings of being an entrepreneur

Alex Jimenez (11:49.388)
you

Duena Blomstrom (11:58.661)
And what it takes to do that and what it takes to kind of to battle the beasts you're in the belly of is it cannot be underestimated. And at the times that people would be like, we were powered because it was fun and it was exciting. And like I said, the wild, wild west of innovation and all of these new gadgets that were interesting, but it was also heartbreaking to see what drama some

HSBC heads of innovation would go through and so on. yeah, it's been quite.

Alex Jimenez (12:36.566)
Yeah. And so there's people like me who were in the industry, we're in banks and we're no longer. And part of the reason for that is, Hey, you know, having to sell the idea of innovation or digital or transformation over and over and over again to the same people, it just gets tiring. and so, you know, yeah, I mean, we still are doing, I'm still doing that, but I'm doing that from the outside. I'm doing that with.

And generally I'm doing that with our clients who are generally looking for new things and are looking to change the, you don't have to make the plan for why you need to change. It's really why you need to choose us. It's a different story as opposed to continue to say, hey, we got to do this. We got to do this. You know, one of the banks that I worked at at some point said, hey, we're done with

Duena Blomstrom (13:17.659)
it

Alex Jimenez (13:35.702)
We're done with digital transformation. Thank you, Alex. Go find a job elsewhere. Which is kind of silly because the whole idea of transformation, and it's not digital specific, it's a transformation of the industry and of the business model is something that is just going to continue. You don't finish it.

Duena Blomstrom (13:40.935)
Thank you.

Duena Blomstrom (13:54.757)
I did it.

Alex Jimenez (13:58.412)
You don't say, we did the five year plan and now we've done with five year plan and you did everything you said five years ago, which is exactly what happened to me. It's, you know, we got to keep going. We get, we got to bring new things. yes. No, that's okay. Yeah. So again, now, now is just finding, finding those organizations that want to, that are really actively looking for solutions. And that's what I do now. So it's different.

Duena Blomstrom (14:10.585)
Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but we'll just get back to you.

Duena Blomstrom (14:26.056)
Ironically, Alex works now for a company who used to be my competitor back in the day. We used to push kind of the same things to the industries that we've been. He knows exactly what I'm saying now from the inside. But the wheel of innovation, if you wish, and kind of the world stories we've seen.

Alex Jimenez (14:35.81)
Yes.

Duena Blomstrom (14:47.961)
I think I must have been, I was counting with a friend the other day, in maybe a hundred innovation labs and departments of various banks. And the one thing they most commonly had in common was the green, the living green wall. If you didn't have a little bit of moss or grass on your wall, then you were clearly not an innovation space. And two of these places were in a panic.

Alex Jimenez (15:13.523)
You're not gonna get it.

Duena Blomstrom (15:16.803)
over the years because they couldn't keep it alive and was one of the key problems they had in the innovation lab, the grass was dying. A lot of money was put in one of them to do that much more than they spent to buy PFM at the time, but that's a different story. The stories we've seen where it's just human folly at its best when you're trying to make big, big things happen and that

Alex Jimenez (15:26.858)
Wow.

Duena Blomstrom (15:45.809)
get stopped by the masses of many business prevention departments to quote J. Nichols, I shall always and forever attribute him on the genius label of, but that is what it felt like. There were inside places who were literally put in place to just stop you from moving ahead. So I'm always hats off to anyone who's done innovation from the inside. have had a...

Alex Jimenez (15:56.257)
you

Duena Blomstrom (16:10.851)
short stint being an entrepreneur in a big beast and it has been absolutely traumatic and horrendous and I know what you've been through. But in those times and kind of as you went along, what would you say were kind of the vision of ahead? What was going to be the holy grail of what banking and and and relationing with one's money was going to be like and how far are we from that view?

Alex Jimenez (16:20.032)
you

Alex Jimenez (16:42.018)
Well, I mean, back in 2011, all of us were saying that branches were going to be alive for five years and that's it. They won't go beyond that. So clearly we were wrong because we still have them. We continue to close branches. We continue to open branches as well. that's brought a whole bunch of problems that we never actually really thought through. you know, just recently I was reading in Lloyd's

is closing a whole bunch of branches in the UK. And there's some towns that just don't have any branches left, which as an American seems really weird because we have so many branches in the US. But it's the same thing in Spain. There are lots of small towns that just don't have any branches. that impacts the older clients that just are never going to go into digital.

Duena Blomstrom (17:32.869)
Mm.

Alex Jimenez (17:40.898)
We'll never use an app. now they have to somehow get to the next town over to do their banking. So we were pretty ridiculous back then thinking that that was going to go away as quickly as that. think I particularly didn't have a grand vision of where banking was going because I really thought then that it was just going to...

to change and we were gonna move all the banking to your mobile phone and it'll gotta be moved to your smart glasses and blah, blah, blah. So it's really more focused on the form than the actual, what it was gonna look like. some things are better than I thought they would be in the future.

Duena Blomstrom (18:37.582)
Hmm.

Alex Jimenez (18:39.988)
some things that just never have never caught on. And I think the whole idea of true, true, true personalization continues to be kind of something that we're all going towards. And now we're, we're all saying, Hey, AI is going to give us that personalization and a generative AI is going to be, you know, we're going to have an agent who's going to do all the banking for us. And then we don't even have to think about banking. I, is a bit of a

folly there. don't know how it feels like it's going to be really soon, but I don't know. When I use Erika, which is Bank of America's AI bot, it's way far away from what people think about true personalization. I have lots of bank accounts with a lot of banks in the US and I just don't see

Duena Blomstrom (19:33.284)
Hmm.

Alex Jimenez (19:37.57)
any of them doing true personalization. I still like to do on my birthday is see how many of my banks send me a birthday message. And it's still a minority of the banks that I have accounts with. I have accounts maybe with 15, 20 banks only because of what I do. And maybe three or four actually send me a message. And maybe once...

Duena Blomstrom (19:55.684)
That's really sad for the state of the back end of those banks.

Alex Jimenez (20:02.402)
Yeah, and maybe one of them actually gives me an offer. Hey, we're going to give you a, you know, have a basis point on this or that, which doesn't move the needle, but what is that?

Duena Blomstrom (20:10.006)
That's really sad. That must be, that absolutely must be all due to this thing that I arrived at the end of my FinTech run, was this is all left because of human debt. This is what these organizations are incapable of working out. So to me it was like, I now know why it's not that there's this big.

Kabbalah, of Illuminati, of CEOs of banks that go like, we shall not give people the things they need. Equally, it did my head in for many, many years. Why would they not use the data they have in the ways that we're showing them so clearly and so easily to actually give people things that they want? mean, all they would need to do is go to one thing of it and they would come out of there knowing what to do. The reality of it is they all knew what to do, right? There's absolutely no

Alex Jimenez (20:41.983)
You

Alex Jimenez (21:01.996)
Bye.

Duena Blomstrom (21:03.944)
Even old God CEO that didn't know where we were going or what would be necessary. But to do that internally in these big beasts was near impossible as you many times hear from us telling you the stories. Now, the delta between that and what the consumer got is still, in my view, insanely big. it's a shame and it's a pity. And it covers us as an industry in shame that we haven't gotten much further when we had all of

Alex Jimenez (21:19.903)
yeah.

Duena Blomstrom (21:33.646)
this easily at our fingertips. With that said, it's almost, it's not even just because the banks are big and they have, you know, human debt and tech debt galore, but because we've also proliferated this industry around them, that's a bubble of many, many things that are attempting to fix that. And now we have to all somehow make a living. So it's not surprising that it's slowed, unfortunately, stowed them down even more. So.

But even now, looking at the things that in Manica used to win Finovait with, they don't exist in my bank or yours. it is still the realm of science fiction for half of these things when they should have been easy. is that because, we know why that is, but in terms of leaping ahead, because we know that sometimes propositions just don't...

Alex Jimenez (22:20.802)
You

Duena Blomstrom (22:30.263)
don't arrive in time, but when they do arrive, they arrive hopefully stronger. What do you think is genuinely big that's coming up? you know, is it over banking? Is it don't tell me AI? Because we both know that's not the answer. So what is the big thing that's going to really shake anything?

Alex Jimenez (22:48.162)
But

I don't think there's a big thing necessarily. I personalization still to me is where I like the organizations to go. unfortunately it is going to have to take some AI. It's going to have to take some data, managing of data. I think to me more powerful than anything is this whole idea of have just in time contextual recommendations, advice. Cause you know what, for all of us who are in the financial services world,

Most people don't care. Most people don't want to bother. It's either scary to be thinking about money or boring to think about money. And there's other things more important or more fun to think about. So the whole idea that, you know, we're going to be spending a ton of time looking at our apps and, you know, I think that's, that's, that is not going to happen. It's really just how, how can we provide

people with what they need when they need it, with real true advice and not things like, maybe if you buy less Starbucks, you'll save some money. You know, those are ridiculous kind of things. you know, how do you do that? And it's difficult. Sometimes, you know, we kind of get bogged down on the idea, well, for us to be able to do that, we need to have a real time modern core and therefore we're going to have to update our core. know, 10 years later, we just did it, right?

And we spent a lot of effort doing that. you know, we just need to, we need to redesign our website. We need to redesign our app. All of those things need to be done. But really to serve the needs of banking customers, it's gotta be, you know, how do we just make their lives better? And you're not gonna make their lives better by some of the

Alex Jimenez (24:47.938)
by updating our core system. It might lead to that, but it's a difficult thing. Back 10 years ago, we thought, we gave everybody the power of data. We'll give them some pie charts and all this PFM stuff. And all those PFM things were fantastic.

They're really great for those of us that love that stuff. But consumers couldn't care less. The consumers are like, don't care. I don't want to look at the pie chart. Just tell me how much money I have in my account. That's all I need to know. you know, we're, you know, we kind of get full of ourselves and think about the things that we would like as people in banking that either, you know, have an accounting degree, a finance degree or a computer science degree. And we get really

Duena Blomstrom (25:17.345)
Yeah.

Duena Blomstrom (25:39.553)
Yeah.

Alex Jimenez (25:47.138)
geek out and all that stuff, but most people are not focused that way. So I don't think I answered the question, but...

Duena Blomstrom (25:48.733)
Okay. Very true. Bye.

you have? To be fair, I I spent a good three, four years studying the idea of money moments and what is happening. What's the hold up? Why can't we just make better experiences for our customers? But again, the answer is because we don't have the mindset in organizations or the generative organizations would be able to do that. But outside of that, it was also a question of, you know, kind of what do our customers or don't they want to have? And that is a conversation that didn't necessarily really happen in most places. And

I remember some of the products, the early products that were both giving people the ability to geek out, like you said, on their data, but they were also, we've also made things like, I remember we won Finovay 20 with something called Peace of Mind Banking, which was essentially taking all of the boring bits and putting it under the hood and doing it for you and getting you the best rates and making sure that you're saving here and there and so on. But equally, it was letting you do the things that were emotionally significant to you on top of it.

You think game over, we've got this, what else are we going to be doing? Surely that's the future of banking. We were still 10 years into it and that doesn't much exist everywhere. Again, that goes back to whether or not we can apply these things in banking. But it also, like you say, very much depends on our vision of what this future should have been. And I think maybe going forward, and that's kind of really interesting to me is I don't actually know, and I couldn't tell you how

different the money moments that we were referring to back then and we were attempting to study how little human centered design existed anyway, are to what they are like today to the newer generation and whether or not that's even a conversation because if you, I get a feeling that there's a lot more aversion towards the idea of money in general and of

Duena Blomstrom (27:46.547)
of kind of looking at finances in the way that we had it. So it might have changed. What do you reckon? Is the new generation going to be a finance geek or are they going to be expecting things to have happened under the hood?

Alex Jimenez (28:01.874)
I don't know. think it's, I don't know. It's hard to tell. The fact that there are TikTok influencers that talk about banking and give tips is an interesting one. And if you look at some of those, some of the tips are absolutely terrible, right? So, I mean, as an industry, we need to do a better job to talk to Gen Zers and Gen Alphas and let them

understand what it is that they should be doing. But, you know, I see very few banks and fintechs actually using TikTok, for example, as a way to talk to their clients. There's a former client of mine, a fintech in Canada that has a really great program where they have, you know, in-house influencers whose job is to go on TikTok, and that's what they do. And they talk to...

they talk to their clients and their prospects about what they should be doing. But there's very few of those organizations doing that.

Duena Blomstrom (29:05.898)
Awesome. I'd love to get their name afterwards. I'd love to look into it. It is bizarre because if you look at it, many places have, even just taking this silly demure, not demure moment, there has been, I don't know if you've seen it, but there has been a bevy of museums, libraries, administration offices, you name it, who have

Alex Jimenez (29:24.482)
Yes.

Duena Blomstrom (29:33.489)
use this to kind of read. And it's an amazing thing. It would have been a great time for every bank to jump on it. And I kept hoping that one bank somewhere is going to know because we are bankers and we are self-respecting and we're not going to be going there. I suspect it's the...

Alex Jimenez (29:35.168)
Yes.

Alex Jimenez (29:45.194)
I

Alex Jimenez (29:51.618)
I'd love to see Lloyd's do a very demure thing.

Duena Blomstrom (29:54.369)
Absolutely, they should. I don't know why they wouldn't. I don't know why no one says in Lloyd's today, see? They said we should, so I hope they do. But there's just so much that needs to kind of re-wrap itself in a sense. And you were mentioning earlier, and I think that's very interesting point, that the guard has changed. It's something we touched on in other episodes of this, which is back in our day, the kind of the last...

Alex Jimenez (30:04.768)
That's great.

Duena Blomstrom (30:20.339)
outpost of desperation for any of us attempting to see transformation who weren't was at least at one point this old guard is going to change and we're going to have more new people in in organizations that are going to usher in change faster. Now if they did come in and they did, they're much younger people these days doing the things, do we see them every day? Do you meet them every day?

Alex Jimenez (30:46.678)
Yeah, I don't know. That's a challenge, right? It's something we need to figure out as an industry and we haven't, I don't think we have. I see organizations talking about how do we engage with millennials and Gen Zers, but I don't see a lot of action industry-wide. The other thing though I'm seeing is that the older,

Duena Blomstrom (30:47.029)
hehe

Duena Blomstrom (31:09.44)
Hmm.

Alex Jimenez (31:16.418)
The parts of banks that have moved slower, so I'm thinking about commercial banking and corporate banking, they're starting to demand a lot of the stuff that we used to demand 10 years ago in retail. They want digital experiences. They want to be able to deal with banks in that way.

The idea of a CFO at a company having to spend a whole afternoon with their banker playing golf does not necessarily translate to a younger, newer CFO who's saying, look, I don't have time for that. Maybe my predecessor was doing that stuff, but I just want to have a quick conversation with my banker. I want to be able to...

go onto a website, go into a digital banking and deal with my bank that way, which is what we used to say in the retail world and even in the small business world. But now that's going out. That's going all the way up to corporates and corporates are asking for that stuff. I've just read a study from McKinsey that says, you know, there is a whole number of smaller corporate organizations that just don't want to deal with a banker.

The big big ones still do, but...

Duena Blomstrom (32:43.71)
I'm not surprised, although I am mostly surprised when they get anything right, but this time around I'm not surprised that that's correct.

Alex Jimenez (32:56.364)
Well, the data is saying that, That's what the CFOs are saying. at least they're saying it, whether it's reality or not, who knows.

Duena Blomstrom (33:04.35)
It is good to hear that it's moving, we're still going in the right direction. You seem almost as excited as you were 15 years ago. I don't know how you do that. But I will ask people to find you online and ask you what keeps you excited because I know that you're now with a company that's giving you that kind of a fodder for excitement in terms of what they're making as compared to other places. So...

Alex Jimenez (33:15.659)
You

Duena Blomstrom (33:31.642)
I'll make sure that people can find you in the intro and there will be a link to your LinkedIn and people, absolutely must stop reading what Alex says and follow him. But thank you so much for talking to us today. We're gonna keep it short. The generation we're talking to has shorter attention spans and we're all neuro-spicy, so we should probably keep it down. But thank you so much for coming over and telling us how you felt those early days of #FinTech. Thank you, Alex, and hope to have you back soon.

Alex Jimenez (33:46.38)
Thank you.

Alex Jimenez (33:59.72)
Well, thank you so much. It's good to see you and take care.

Duena Blomstrom (34:01.872)
And same here. Thank you so much. Bye.

Alex Jimenez (34:06.882)
Bye.